It’s Been a Minute : NPR

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BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:
Hello, hello. I’m Brittany Luse, and you’re listening to IT’S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, a show about what’s going on in culture and why it doesn’t happen by accident.
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LUSE: The schools are empty, the pools are packed, and chances are you’ve been to a cookout or two in the past couple weeks. Summer is back, baby. And now that we’re over the hump of Pride parties and holiday picnics, you might be ready to enjoy the softer, quieter side of summer with a good book. My producer Corey Antonio calls it second summer, which has a different tone to it. And for the occasion, I wanted to get some summer book recommendations. And for this year’s summer books guide, I’ve invited two authors who wrote some very delicious books that I have loved to read – Jean Chen Ho and Tia Williams.
What makes a book a good summer book in your opinions?
TIA WILLIAMS: For me, the best summer reads are totally escapist. Like, they should take you completely out of your element and just immerse you in another world. I know it’s a great beach read or summer read when I look up and so much time has passed.
JEAN CHEN HO: The summertime is when I don’t have to think about reading books that I’m going to use on my syllabus to teach. I just let myself really dive into the joy and the delight of the book, you know? It’s my Calgon-take-me-away moment.
LUSE: I’m a longtime fan of Tia and a new fan of Jean Chen Ho. And today, Tia and Jean are giving us their top picks for summer books and theorizing why we just can’t put down a gossipy summer novel.
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LUSE: Tia, Jean, welcome to IT’S BEEN A MINUTE.
CHEN HO: Hi, Brittany.
T WILLIAMS: Hi, Brittany. I’m so excited to be here with you.
LUSE: I’m excited to have you both. And before we get into your recommendations, we need to let the listeners know about the two of you and gas you up a little bit. You both have a knack for fiction writing. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your latest books? Jean, let’s start with you.
CHEN HO: Well, my latest book is a linked story collection called “Fiona And Jane,” and it is about two Taiwanese American women and the story of their long friendship. It spans about 20 years of their lives, starting from when they’re teenagers up until they’re almost in their 40s, and addresses how they lose one another as friends and then come back together and have to rebuild that.
LUSE: I read it. It’s a beautiful, beautiful book, and it gets so many things right about friendship. But, Tia, you got a new book out this summer. Please tell us about it.
T WILLIAMS: Yeah, my latest novel is “A Love Song For Ricki Wilde.” So it’s about Ricki Wilde, who is the youngest daughter of this very aristocratic, Southern family, and she doesn’t want to go into the family business, which is funeral homes, ’cause that’s bleak to her. And all she’s ever wanted to do is be a floral designer.
So she moves to New York, specifically Harlem, and opens a flower shop in what ends up being an enchanted brownstone. And there, she meets a very mysterious musician. They fall in love, and they find out that their lives are already connected in a million enigmatic ways and in one crucial way, which is connected to a scandal that went down during the Harlem Renaissance period.
LUSE: Oh, my gosh. I love the addition of, like, an old family mystery and, like, looking back at history and that sense of place – so much fun. You know, something I love about both your writings is that you’re both really great at writing complex relationships.
I read your book, Jean, and it reminded me, actually, of one of your other books, Tia, “Seven Days In June,” in that, like, they kind of each explore these decadeslong relationships with complicated pasts. And I think that a lot of readers – me included, obviously – are really drawn to stories about relationships, especially in our summer reading. Why do you think that is?
T WILLIAMS: I think that, you know, when you’re on summer break or on a vacation, life slows down a bit, and you want to explore – to really pour over what these relationships mean and really look at the emotional side of things.
CHEN HO: I think it’s because summertime is for gossip, you know?
LUSE: Ooh.
CHEN HO: That’s the time that we want to get the tea. We want to, like, learn all the dramatics…
LUSE: (Laughter).
CHEN HO: …And all the theatrics of what’s happening between people. And we don’t really want the drama in our own lives necessarily, but reading books about relationships and the history of people’s relationships and how it comes to bear in the present – you know, all of that kind of stuff, I think, is what we want in the summer. We want to have fun. We want to fantasize.
LUSE: So Jean says that we like to be in other people’s business, which I also admit.
CHEN HO: (Laughter).
LUSE: That is me. That is me. That is me. Well, you’ve each brought a few recommendations with that summer energy that you have described. We are looking for the tried-and-true books that you’d recommend to any friend looking for a juicy read on a nice day. So, Tia, we will start with you. What is your first recommendation?
T WILLIAMS: My first recommendation is “The Guest” by Emma Cline.
LUSE: Ooh. That’s a good one. That’s a good one.
T WILLIAMS: Listen, I love a liar.
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T WILLIAMS: I love a scam artist. I love a gripper.
LUSE: Oh, please describe “The Guest,” for those who haven’t read it or aren’t familiar.
T WILLIAMS: So it is a fast read because you’re following the antics of this extremely unreliable narrator as she just sort of shows up in the Hamptons during, you know, high summer party season and figures out a way to get into these parties, where to stay, you know, every night. She has no plan, really. But you watch how she ingratiates herself into these different social groups and makes them all believe that she’s just supposed to be there. And it’s really almost like an anthropological study of how an outsider can worm their way in by preying on the weaknesses of others.
CHEN HO: (Laughter).
T WILLIAMS: And as the story progresses, you get more and more anxiety because you’re like, how is she going to pull this off? And you’re putting yourself into the story, thinking like, if I was in this situation, knowing that I didn’t know any of these people at this party…
CHEN HO: Yes.
LUSE: (Laughter).
T WILLIAMS: …And I made them believe that I know them – and I’m going to get found out, and what’s going to happen? But she just doesn’t have any of those, you know, issues. I don’t know if you guys watch “Vanderpump Rules.”
LUSE: Yeah.
T WILLIAMS: But to me, she’s…
LUSE: …Kristen.
T WILLIAMS: She’s Kristen Doute.
LUSE: Whoa.
T WILLIAMS: She’s Kristen Doute. That’s who I was seeing. She can do that.
LUSE: You’ve blown my mind with that. I never thought about her character like that, but that’s a really good read of the situation. Wow. Great pick. I have to second that one. I believe that was one I listened to on audiobook. And I remember being at one pivotal point where I was, like, walking around the grocery store with my cart. And the main character, I remember she just did something that was so wild. Like, she told a lie that was so outrageous or completely miscalculated her appeal in getting over on somebody. It just went so wrong that I actually stopped and, like, gasped and covered my mouth…
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LUSE: …’Cause I was like, girl, why are you in this situation?
T WILLIAMS: Yeah.
LUSE: Excellent, excellent first pick for a summer book. Thank you so much, Tia. Jean, what is your first pick?
CHEN HO: My first recommendation is a memoir. It’s called “Meet Me Tonight In Atlantic City” by Jane Wong. So this is the story of a Chinese American family in New Jersey. The author, Jane, and her younger brother, Steven, are restaurant babies. The parents open up a Chinese restaurant, and that’s where Jane and her brother grow up.
Sadly, her father has a gambling addiction, so every family trip to Atlantic City is really fraught. The kids don’t really know what’s going on, of course, but because Jane is writing this from her adult perspective, we can see that this is leading to the demise of her parents’ marriage. And their family is really negatively affected by this gambling addiction.
And then a lot of the memoir is also about how Jane came to writing. It’s really about how she found her voice as a writer and an artist. So that’s my first summer read recommendation. It will transport you. You’ll laugh. It’s just a really beautifully tender book.
LUSE: I like that you chose a memoir as your first pick. I find that something about the summer – maybe having more of your body exposed to the weather, feeling the sun – I think it just takes you back to some of the feelings and mindset of being a child. And it’s interesting to kind of explore the ways in which other people think about how their childhoods made them. So thank you so much…
CHEN HO: Yeah.
LUSE: …For that pick. All right, Tia, it’s your turn again. What you got?
T WILLIAMS: OK. So this one just came out, like, a week and a half ago. It’s “Hip-Hop Is History,” Questlove’s new book, and it is fantastic. It almost reads like having a late-night conversation with, you know, your music-obsessed best friend.
And what he does is piece together the cultural influences, the most, you know, important artists, the most culturally significant songs – again, even some that we might have forgotten about – that wove together to create this worldwide genre that it is today. And I always love cultural histories that piece it together for me. You know, I was there, but it still is so excellent to have it all pieced together in a bow and given to me.
LUSE: That’s such a cool pick. That’s a really cool pick. I like it being, like, a nonfiction historical account. Jean, what is your next recommendation?
CHEN HO: OK. My next recommendation is a book that just came out last week. It’s called “Devil Is Fine” by John Vercher. Our protagonist is a biracial man who inherits a plot of land from his white mother’s side of the family, and it just so happens to be a former plantation. You know, he goes down to see the plot of land, intending to sell it, and makes a discovery. I won’t give it away.
At the same time, he’s also a writer and a professor, and he’s navigating the racial politics of his department. And, I mean, he’s sort of losing his mind, and he writes this crazy pitch about the next book that he’s planning to write. And in his really messed up state because of the grief that he’s going through, he also starts hallucinating and thinks that he’s becoming a jellyfish. I mean, this book is wild, and it’s really funny. That’s my second summer recommendation.
LUSE: Oh, my gosh. What a great recommendation. I’m sorry – just all of the plot points that you have laid out…
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CHEN HO: It’s a lot. It’s a lot, right?
LUSE: I was going to say it just seems like exposition.
T WILLIAMS: Yeah.
LUSE: But I’m like, you have…
T WILLIAMS: Same.
LUSE: …Gotten my attention. All right, Tia, you have got one more pick. What is it?
T WILLIAMS: “Good Material” by Dolly Alderton. She’s a U.K. columnist – hilarious. And this is a rom-com, but it’s told from the extremely rare perspective of a man. So it’s this struggling – yeah. They’re – it’s never from the male’s perspective. And so he’s this struggling comic. And basically, he’s reeling from his perfect girlfriend leaving him, and he’s trying to piece together what happened. And it is hilarious to read. Not to be gender normative or anything, but, like, men struggle sometimes with the emotional aspect of things. Like…
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LUSE: I’ve heard that one before…
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T WILLIAMS: Yeah.
LUSE: …Heard that one before.
T WILLIAMS: I’m trying to be diplomatic here, but just, like, reading his, like, floundering. And like, as a woman, you know exactly why she left him, but he doesn’t get it. And the side characters are a riot. The dialogue is so zippy, so funny. It is an absolute – just a hysterical romp. I can’t recommend it enough.
LUSE: That sounds very enticing to me for a number of reasons. I mean, I am married now, but I had, for a while there, a stretch of, like, summer kind of breakups. And there is nothing like kind of forgetting your own drama and getting into – it’s kind of like what you said earlier, Jean, getting into somebody…
CHEN HO: Yeah.
LUSE: …Else’s for a little while (laughter). And I can think of plenty of occasions where reading a book like that, where an unreliable male narrator had to be confronted slowly with why his girlfriend left him…
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LUSE: …That probably would have healed some wounds for me, thinking back – definitely a few times.
T WILLIAMS: That’s what it did for me. And yeah, I’m happily married, but I was like, oh, my God, I’ve been there. Like, I have been the woman…
LUSE: (Laughter).
T WILLIAMS: …And here you are so frustrating. Like, why don’t you see it?
CHEN HO: As the only single person on this recording…
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CHEN HO: …I suppose, I can’t wait to read this book. Thanks, Tia. That’s a great rec.
LUSE: That is a really great rec. All right. Jean, take us home. What is your last pick?
CHEN HO: OK. My final pick is “Piranesi” by Susanna Clarke. So this is a fantasy novel. I picked it up, and I tore through it in, like, two days. So, yeah, Piranesi is a mysterious figure who takes care of this house with seemingly endless rooms. You get to know this labyrinth through Piranesi’s point of view. And there is one other person who lives in the house, who is trying to find the answer to some great lost knowledge and needs Piranesi’s help because Piranesi walks through the rooms and takes these meticulous notes on the house.
And it might sound boring the way that I’m describing it, but as each chapter unfolds, it becomes more and more sinister, and this other person, we find, has other motives. And there’s a whole backstory to how this house came to be and who Piranesi actually is. It’s just so well done. You don’t see any of the reveals coming. And it’s also about the nature of memory and caring for others and what it means to live a meaningful life. So, yeah, that’s my rec.
T WILLIAMS: And how do you spell it?
CHEN HO: P-I-R-A-N-E-S-I by Susanna Clarke. It’s so imaginative, but the reason I picked it for my summer books recommendation is that you still get all of the gossip and drama…
LUSE: (Laughter).
CHEN HO: …That, you know, we were talking about you crave in a summer read.
T WILLIAMS: Love it.
LUSE: Oh, my gosh. You all have given me so many incredible recommendations, OK? And so I’m wondering, do you have any tips for our readers – oh, our listeners who are going to be readers – on actually getting through their summer stacks?
CHEN HO: Oh, my God.
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LUSE: Your response is comforting ’cause I’m like, OK, so we all – y’all are both authors. OK? So I’m like, OK, so we all have to…
T WILLIAMS: Yeah.
LUSE: …Really just stick to it. But any tips that you have whatsoever would still be helpful. You all have a professional edge, so help us out.
T WILLIAMS: I mean, I would say audiobooks help you get through it. I mean, sometimes carrying around, you know, an actual physical book or finding the time to, like, you know, sit down and open it up and, you know, make this moment happen – sometimes that’s a bridge too far. If you’re busy or, you know, scattered or, you know – but if you put on your audiobook while you’re cleaning the house or on the subway or, you know, waiting in line at CVS, it’s a little bit different.
LUSE: That’s a really good point. I’m a big audiobook girlie. I’ve been listening to this book by Karina Longworth called “Seduction: Sex, Lies And Stardom In Howard Hughes’s Hollywood” – so good, so good.
T WILLIAMS: I’ve read it.
LUSE: It’s, like, 20-some hours long. And anytime I have, like, driving to do or I’m going for a walk outside or I’ve got to do some cleaning, I am listening to this book on audiobook. I’ve already listened to, like, 14 hours of this already, OK? I could tell you things about Jean Harlow that probably most people wouldn’t think about.
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LUSE: I’ve been absolutely loving this book, and I love audiobooks for that reason. It’s, like, they can be the companion when your hands aren’t free, and you can’t sit down. But very, very, very good tips here. All right, what about you, Jean?
CHEN HO: OK. My tip is a little chaotic (laughter). I mean, that’s what summertime is for, right?
LUSE: Yes, yes.
CHEN HO: But I’m a person who reads multiple books at once.
T WILLIAMS: Yes.
CHEN HO: So I have my bedside book that I…
LUSE: OK.
CHEN HO: …Read, you know, when I’m…
LUSE: Talk about it.
CHEN HO: …When I’m winding down. I have my bathroom book. Sorry, TMI. But, you know, that is when I’m having my peaceful moment in the bathroom. And then I have my book that I carry around with me. If I’m going to appointments or if I’m going somewhere, then I’ll read it.
LUSE: Yes.
CHEN HO: It’s kind of like dating multiple people at the same time, you know? You’ve got options.
LUSE: Genius. That really is so smart. But, yeah, great tips – oh, my gosh – and so different, so complementary. Thank you both so much. Tia, Jean, this has been so much fun, and you all have given me so many great summer reads. So I really appreciate it.
CHEN HO: Thanks, Brittany. This was so fun.
T WILLIAMS: Thank you for having us.
LUSE: That was authors Jean Chen Ho and Tia Williams. You can find their books, like “A Love Song For Ricki Wilde” or “Fiona And Jane, ” on shelves now.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Hey, Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Hey, Brittany.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: Hey, Brittany.
MEG: Hey, Brittany, this is Meg (ph). I’m in Pegasus Books, and I wanted to give you a recommendation for a summer read. It’s called “I Have Some Questions For You” by Rebecca Makkai. And it’s the story of a woman who went to a prestigious boarding school. And as an adult, she’s returned. And while she was at boarding school, a murder took place. And she has returned to try to uncover what really happened.
LUSE: Meg, Meg, Meg from Pegasus Books, let me tell you, that book sounds juicy as I don’t know what. I absolutely will be giving that one a try.
LOUISA: Hey, Brittany. This is Louisa (ph). And my summer reading recommendation is “Valley Of The Dolls” by Jacqueline Susann. And it’s a very sort of gossipy, scandalous novel about people in Hollywood. The writing’s really interesting, especially compared to that sort of novel that’s written today.
LUSE: Oh, my gosh, Louisa. Now, this is one I can second. OK? Not only is the book juicy, but, y’all, the movie with Patty Duke – that’s a good one. That is a good one. Thank you both so much for calling in. This was great.
LUSE: Next week, we’re having a conversation with the director and the star of the new “Cats” revival that is taking the New York stage by storm. This time, it tells the story through the lens of the ballroom subculture. And so I’d like to hear from those of you who know the scene. What’s your favorite thing about ballroom? Send us a voice memo at ibam@npr.org. That’s ibam@npr.org.
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LUSE: This episode of IT’S BEEN A MINUTE was produced by…
COREY ANTONIO ROSE, BYLINE: Corey Antonio Rose.
LUSE: This episode was edited by…
JESSICA PLACZEK, BYLINE: Jessica Placzek.
LUSE: Engineering support came from…
TIFFANY VERA CASTRO, BYLINE: Tiffany Vera Castro.
LUSE: Our executive producer is…
VERALYN WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Veralyn Williams.
LUSE: Our VPR programming is…
YOLANDA SANGWENI, BYLINE: Yolanda Sangweni.
LUSE: All right. That’s all for this episode of IT’S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I’m Brittany Luse. Talk soon.
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